SonicDimension wrote:TaoTapeTao wrote:Their music is responsible for me understanding nature as mathematical and that in fact math is nature and math is organic and not some unnatural strange set or rules or laws we came up with one day. Maybe psychedelics helped in this understanding too.. lol. Well both of those combined I guess.
Math is no more or less 'natural' than other languages. Pure math is essentially a bunch of games with rules invented by humans, but some natural phenomena or patterns can be 'understood' (or reflected in the human consciousness) in terms of the concepts and symbolic systems we invented, like numbers, space and time, and various branches of mathematics. So I disagree with your assertion that math and nature are identical. That idea seems naively anthropocentric. There is so much more in nature than any humans will ever be able to understand or express in words, math, music or any other form of culture or communication.
I guess I was being to vague but I was mostly trying to say that I've observed nature and the universe to be a highly complex, self referencing system/organism which can be compared to our language of mathematics. Basically what betacord just said.
Yes math comes from our observations of laws of the universe but I mean more that it is highly organized and complex and self referencing "being" and works much like the mathematical idea of fractals. And that after some psychedelic experiences my previous notion of mathematics as just a set of strange rules was replaced with an understanding of it being a reflection of a much more inherent and organic behavior of the universe, and that we've picked up on this pattern of nature and created mathematics as a language to describe it.
And since math is an extension of ourselves, it IS natural. We come from nature. Also in general since we created maths as a result of observed behaviors of the universe and nature it is therefore a reflection (although ultimately imperfect) of the behavior of the universe and there is established a significant connection between math and nature. How else would we be able to make incredible predictions about the behavior of the universe and physics and countless other things?
But yes, for the most part I agree with what you're saying, and that language is only an approximation of what is really going on. Ultimately it boils down to plato's cave and us humans are stuck trying to describe the (I believe) infinity of nature/the universe through our limited perception and experience of it.
